SOS: Τοποθέτηση Quaife, ποσοι εχουν βαλει?

[stefm5]

νομίζω πως τα ''μαστόρια'' μεγαλούργησαν πάλι...

[nikos1400]

Με δυο λεξεις δηλαδη,
ΔΕΝ τηρηθηκαν οι οδηγιες εγκαταστασης του διαφορικου.

RTFM που λενε...



υπομονη Φανη...

[fanisk]

Emails απο James και Kevin Birds.

Hello Theofanis,

I'm sorry to hear about this. I have passed on your email to Kevin Bird (the director) who will reply to you as soon as he can. He isn't in the office this week but is still replying to his emails.

Regards, James

Dear Fanis,

Obviously we are very sorry to hear of this failure.
I would ask you to send the broken components to us so we can identify the nature of the failure.
It seems that it is very likely that one of the securing bolts has come loose and been ingested by the crownwheel gear.
We and Quaife will evaluate the cause of the damage, and revert to you with our findings as a matter of urgency.

Regards, Kevin Bird.

Dear Fanis,

This is absolutely the first time we have heard of a bolt failure. Of course this kind of thing can happen at any time. Although Quaife will inspect bolts as part of their quality control procedure, they would not inspect avery single bolt. So it's always possible that one could have a defect in it, or some other problem could occur due to overtightening. It is the same with standard BMW components. We have seen complete failure of standard final drives, for no aparent reason.

What we need back is the complete Quaife unit, and any of the broken pieces (put in a plastic bag please).
However, if you wish to send the complete final drive, we may be able to offer some additional compensation, but of course your shipping expense will be higher.

Regards, Kevin

Dear Fanis,

The Quaife warranty does not cover return shipping. It is always the responsibility of the customer. This is standard practice with all of the component suppliers in the industry.

The conditions can be found here.

https://www.quaife.co.uk/differentia...and-conditions

In our experience, we have only made a claim on one single differential out of at least 1,000 BMW versions that we have sold since 2008. Quaife are very protective of their fine reputation and will deal with this in the fairest possible way.

Regards, Kevin.

Dear Fanis,

Yes, you should send the Quaife to our address.

In the event that it is determined that the bolt was the exclusive cause of the failure, then you will be entitled to your unit returned in a completely repaired state, or a completely new unit if it cannot be repaired, or finally, a refund if you choose to have it. Clearly, any claim under the warranty can only be determined by the manufacturer, and they imply their reasonable process in order to ensure that any possibility of similar apparent failure cannot happen in the future.

I cannot speak about the possibilities of compensation for your expenses, but I will ask Quaife to consider it as part of your warranty claim. Please itemise your costs and send it along with the Quaife unit.

Regards, Kevin.

Let's not get overheated with this. I know it's frustrating, time consuming and stressful when this sort of stuff happens. Just bear in mind the current case we have with BMW, where they have a failed engine in a customer car, and have not been able to supply a replacement engine now for 5 full months!
Sometimes machines break, this is a fact, and there are mechanisms in place to deal with these problems.

It is not appropriate at this time to threaten legal or other actions. You can trust both Quaife and ourselves to put this matter right in a reasonable, legally correct, and professional way.

Regards, Kevin.

address is 2, the ridgeway, Iver, Bucks, SL0 9HW

Dear Fanis,

The problem seems to be quite simple. The installer has not removed the loose black "pre-installation" bolts that are supplied purely to keep the diff in 1 piece. These are supposed to be removed and replaced by the separate silver, pre-loctited bolts which are packed separately, and torqued to 37Nm.

So the installer has added some correct bolts, but has not removed the black ones. So there was one bolt that fell out of the Quaife, because it had no loctite, and was almost certainly not torqued down. The bolt did not break, but merely fell out of the housing.

All of the stock that we had at that time had a clear warning lable on the carton, and also the reason for the provision of these bolts was adequately described in the instructions, which were emailed to you prior to your purchase.

So this is not covered under warranty, as it is an installation error.

Regards, Kevin.

Επειδη το ποστ δεν παιρνει πανω απο 15 φωτο, βαζω τα λινκς.

Φωτογραφιες απο την εγκατασταση τον Φλεβαρη εδω:
https://www.bmwfans.gr/forum/showpos...&postcount=118

Φωτογραφιες που τραβηξε ο Χρηστος (Φλασκης) τη μερα που ελειπα - μαυρη σπασμενη βιδα:
https://s1192.photobucket.com/albums...aged%20Quaife/

Φωτογραφιες απο το μπλοκε μετα το σπασιμο που τραβηξα εγω οταν το πηρα στα χερια μου - φαινονται οι ασημι, οι 2 μαυρες και η 1 κενη θεση:
https://s1192.photobucket.com/albums...20-%20Flaskis/

Για να μην ανεβασω το PDF, κανω quote τις οδηγιες.

Before You Start
Due to the extensive list of different final drives
installed in BMW vehicles, particularly across
different countries, there may be instances where a
the LSD gearset offered differs dimensionally with
the gearset installed in the vehicle concerned. It
makes good sense, therefore, to check the gearset
installed in the car at the earliest possible time. In
most cases, it is possible to remove the rear cover
of the final drive to check the critical dimensions
before committing to the conversion.
The critical dimension is the crownwheel to bearing
dimension, marked L4. This can be checked
visually by offering the LSD up to the existing open
differential. If there is doubt about the configuration,
then check the BMW number as below.
BMW Part references, location on differentials
On a BMW "open" differential gearset, the last 7
digits of the part number are located on the rear of
the crownwheel flange. (1 216 158)
On a BMW LSD, the BMW part number is located
on the clutch drum. (1 117 242)
These numbers are the only absolute references that can enable a match to a Quaife ATB LSD. In most
cases these numbers can be observed by removal of the rear cover. In some cases, however, it may be
necessary to remove the entire final drive.
Please also give the following information
Final Drive Casing BMW Number
(Seven digits cast into casing)
Chassis Number
(Last seven characters)
Transmission Type
(Manual/Auto/SMG)

Replacing differential in final drive.
Removing and installing final drive- refer to BMW TIS for the vehicle concerned.
Drain off fluid.
Secure final drive to BMW special tool 33 1 010 (retaining bracket) or similar.
Remove rear casing cover, and press off both drive
flanges with a tyre iron.
Remove output shaft seals and bearing outer race circlips.
Caution! do not mix up bearing races and circlips.
Changing the total thickness of circlips will change the
friction torque value. The friction torque of the pinion
bearings, the backlash and tooth contact pattern will not
have to be adjusted again provided the circlips and
bearing races are reinstalled in their original positions, and
the pinion assembly is not disassembled.
Remove complete differential gear set from casing.
Press off Bearing Inner races. Take care not to bend the
bearing cages. Ensure that the bearing inner races are
retained with the matching outer races. If the vehicle has
covered more than 50,000 miles, they might require
replacement.
Press or tap off crown wheel (cold).

Installation.
Press on bearing inner races to new LSD gearset.
Heat the crownwheel to 100 degrees (immerse in boiled
water), and place it onto the new LSD gearset, taking care
to align the bolt holes. Ensure no water remains in the bolt
holes prior to installing the bolts. (risk of hydraulic locking)
Install the original crownwheel bolts using loctite 270.
Torque specification for bolts is 100Nm +10/ -0, then
torque angle 30' +4/-0.
It may be necessary to reduce the flange diameter of the
crownwheel bolts to 22mm in order to clear the LSD cap
head screws.
Install new LSD gearset assembly, lubricate bearings with gear oil.
Note. In some cases, the complete assembly is too large for the rear aperture of the casing. In this
case, it is necessary to disassemble the LSD gearset, reassembling with the gearset in-situ inside the
casing. See separate instruction below.
Lubricate with gear oil and carefully push in bearing outer races. Do not tap into position. If the bearing
is correctly aligned, it will fall into place. Reinstall circlips in original positions, and install new output
shaft seals.
Crownwheel tangential clearance (drive pinion backlash) should be checked with a dial gauge according
to BMW procedure. It should not be necessary to adjust with shims. BMW tolerance for a new
differential Backlash mm 0.06 to 0.14mm. (0.0024 to 0.0055in.). However, it is possible to run a
differential with backlash of up to 0.20mm, but this will produce driveline shunt (exactly like the BMW MDifferential,
which runs with 0.20mm backlash)
Before installation of the drive flange, place new round wire snap ring in groove of the LSD gearset so
that both ends are recessed in the groove. (supplied) This prevents lateral bending of the ring.
Lubricate the inside diameter with a small amount of anti-seize compound. Lubricate drive flange shaft
with gear oil. Push in drive flange by hand and turn slightly until wire snap ring is heard to engage.
Clean the faces and install rear cover using BMW sealant or gasket as appropriate.
Reinstall differential into car and fill with oil. Use BMW recommended gear oil, but not LSD oil. Do NOT
use additives or any other fluids designed to reduce gear friction.
Test the final drive by running the car gently between full left and right turns to ensure oil is fully
circulated. Drive the car normally for 10 miles before any aggressive use. No further running in is necessary..

Additional Procedure for disassembling the LSD for loading into 188l casing
If it is necessary to disassemble the
differential to install it into the final drive
casing, all thread locking material MUST
be completely cleaned from the bolt holes
and bolt threads. Warranty claims will
be voided in cases where this procedure
has not been carried out.
Remove the allen head cap screws from the
LSD gearset. Clean any excess thread locking
agent from the screws using a die. Take care
not to cut metal from the threads (use die by
hand, not in a die stock)
Tap apart or press the LSD casing apart, being
careful not to allow the scroll gears to drop out.
Clean any excess thread lock from the bolt
holes with a plug tap (M8x1.25)
If you loose the configuration of the centre
shim stack, this pic. Shows how the
arrangement should be.
Load the crownwheel and LSD crownwheel
flange into the final drive casing. It may be
necessary to remove several of the long scroll
gears to allow installation.
Once the crownwheel assembly is in place, the
scroll gears can be replaces, and the outer
casing carefully put back into place. Note the
position of the assembly dowel hole. This is not
a bolt hole and must align up with the dowel
hole in the LSD crownwheel flange correctly.
Reinstall the LSD Allen head cap screws using
Loctite 270, and torque to 37Nm. Ensure the
bolt holes are free from oil or other materials.
Do not over-use Loctite. Failure to ensure the
bolt holes are clear might result in breakage of
the housing due to hydraulic action.

Και ενα λινκ απο τοποθετηση στο εξωτερικο που ο ιδιωτης αναφερει πως οι βιδες πρεπει να βγουν, οπως αναφερει και ο Apostolos, οπως ελεγα τοτε και εγω.

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513534

h. The Quaife LSD was shipped with only 3 bolts holding the unit together and new bolts with loctite in a bag. But the LSD in the vise again with alum or wood blocks. Leaving 3 bolts in place, I torqued all others to 30 ft.lbs. using a cross bolt pattern and then retorqued to 40 ft.lbs. Then remove 3 bolts that came in unit and torque those to the same. (you should double check this I found the info somewhere on the web)
i. Install Ring Gear, clamp in vise, clean all bolts and apply blue loctite, torque all bolts to 100 and then 125 ft.lbs. using cross bolt pattern (again you should double check this I found the info somewhere on the web)
Silver hex head bolts in picture below are what step h. refer to

Βασει των παραπανω ειναι ξεκαθαρο λαθος τοποθετησης ή οχι?

[stefm5]

φάνη είναι περισσότερο από εμφανές ότι ευθύνεται η τοποθέτηση

[Nino]

Emails απο James και Kevin Birds.

















Επειδη το ποστ δεν παιρνει πανω απο 15 φωτο, βαζω τα λινκς.

Φωτογραφιες απο την εγκατασταση τον Φλεβαρη εδω:
https://www.bmwfans.gr/forum/showpos...&postcount=118

Φωτογραφιες που τραβηξε ο Χρηστος (Φλασκης) τη μερα που ελειπα - μαυρη σπασμενη βιδα:
https://s1192.photobucket.com/albums...aged%20Quaife/

Φωτογραφιες απο το μπλοκε μετα το σπασιμο που τραβηξα εγω οταν το πηρα στα χερια μου - φαινονται οι ασημι, οι 2 μαυρες και η 1 κενη θεση:
https://s1192.photobucket.com/albums...20-%20Flaskis/

Για να μην ανεβασω το PDF, κανω quote τις οδηγιες.



Και ενα λινκ απο τοποθετηση στο εξωτερικο που ο ιδιωτης αναφερει πως οι βιδες πρεπει να βγουν, οπως αναφερει και ο Apostolos, οπως ελεγα τοτε και εγω.

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513534



Βασει των παραπανω ειναι ξεκαθαρο λαθος τοποθετησης ή οχι?

Βαση των παραπανω ειναι περισσοτερο απο ξεκαθαρο οτι ο τροπος τοποθετησης θα επρεπε να ειναι "διαφορετικος"
να εχουν αφαιρεθει οι μαυρες βιδες οι οποιες ηταν μονο για τη "μεταφορα".
και να εχουν τοποθετηθει οι ασημενιες ( κανενα ανταλακτικο -εξαρτημα -αξεσουαρ δεν το συνοδευουν υλικα περισσοτερα οι λιγοτερα παντα ειναι οσα ακριβως πρεπει)
Νομιζω πως πρεπει να συμπεριφερθουν με υπευθυνοτητα και επαγγελματισμο και σε σενα αλλα και με ανακλησεις οπου αλλου εχει γινει η ιδια τοποθετηση οπως πολυ σωστα αναφερει ο Σταθης.

[Thomelef]

1) ο άγγλος είναι επαγγελματίας απο το Α ώς και το Ω...δεν αποκλείει τπτ ο άνθρωπος μέχρι να
πάρει στα χέρια του το εξάρτημα. είναι μεγάλη υπόθεση να σου λέει ο επαγγελματίας ότι υπάρχει
ενδεχόμενο να είναι δικό τους λάθος...
2) ξέρουν τι πουλάνε, μιάς και αμέσως κατάλαβαν ότι η τοποθέτηση δεν έγινε όπως αυτοί προτείνουν
δια ροπάλου απ'ότι έχω καταλάβει στο θρεντ μέχρι τώρα.
εγώ ένα πράγμα δεν κατάλαβα ρε παιδιά...γιατί το συνεργείο δεν ακολούθησε τις οδηγίες που δίνει
ο κατασκευαστής όταν μαζί με το διαφορικό στέλνει όλα τα components, και οδηγίες εγκατάστασης...
εσένα ρε φάνη τι εξήγηση σου έδωσε για το γεγονός ότι έκανε του κεφαλιού του???υπήρχε κάποιο
πρόβλημα με τα εξαρτήματα που έστειλαν οι άγγλοι???και αν ναι γιατί δεν σε ενημέρωσε έτσι ώστε
να επικοινωνήσεις με τους άγγλους???θα σου πρότεινα, να πάς απο εκεί, να πάρετε μαζί τηλέφωνο
στους άγγλους, και να μιλήσουν οι δυο τους όπως πολύ σωστά είπε και ο βαγγέλης...have in mind,
that none of this is your fault!!!

[Monsta]

Φαν, λυπάμαι για τη περιπέτειά σου.


Η απάντηση βρίσκεται στο τελευταίο email του Kevin, στη 1η, 2η & 3η παράγραφο.


Ποιο είναι το πρόβλημα του εγκαταστάτη ? Χρειάζεται μεταφραστή ?


Ευτυχώς που έχεις φωτό από τη διαδικασία βήμα-βήμα. Δώστου μία τελευταία ευκαιρία και αν δε δεχτεί να το επισκευάσει με αποκλειστικά δικά του έξοδα, δεν έχεις παρά να δώσεις όλα τα στοιχεία στο δικηγόρο σου και να μην ασχοληθείς πλέον μαζί του. Είμαι κατά 99.9% σίγουρος πως μόλις τους τηλεφωνήσει και τους απλώσει όλα τα στοιχεία στο τραπέζι, η υπόθεση θα λάβει τέλος. Κρίμα που δεν είσαι και σε καμία άλλη χώρα να ζητήσεις καμιά τρελή αποζημίωση για 'ψυχική οδύνη, έξοδα αυτοκινήτου αντικατάστασης κτλ', να σου πω εγώ αν θα ξαναφήσει τις μαύρες βίδες πάνω.


Thus, you should rest your case....

[z3 2.2]

εγω απο την πλευρα μου ευχομαι να βρεθει η λυση κ να μην επιβαρυνθεις την ζημια φιλε Φανη...εισαι ο μονος που ΔΕΝ φταιει!


απο την αλλη...για λαδακια παω κ ειμαι παντα απο πανω!!!

οσο μπορειτε μην αφηνετε τα αυτοκινητα σας μονα τους στην κριση του καθενος!

αμα θελει να σε δουλεψει ο μαστορας Βασιλη......αστο.
απο πανω του μπορει να εισαι και να κατουρησει αντι να βαλει λαδια.
ο σκοπος ειναι να υπαρχει εμπιστοσυνη και τεχνογνωσια

[fanisk]

φάνη είναι περισσότερο από εμφανές ότι ευθύνεται η τοποθέτηση

Στεφανε θελω να ειμαι 100% σιγουρος πριν κανω καποια κινηση, για αυτο και το μοιραζομαι μαζι σας να μου πειτε τη γνωμη σας.

[nikos1400]

Στεφανε θελω να ειμαι 100% σιγουρος πριν κανω καποια κινηση, για αυτο και το μοιραζομαι μαζι σας να μου πειτε τη γνωμη σας.

δυστυχως Φανη, και αν εχουμε καποια εμπιστοσυνη σε καποιους,
δυστυχως γινονται και λαθη.
το κακο ειναι οχι τοσο οτι εγινε λαθος, αλλα οτι σε 'κρεμανε' μετα...


ετσι οπως τα περιγραφεις τα γεγονοτα, ειναι πιστευω και εγω προφανες.

απ'τη στιγμη που ειδες και εσυ οτι ΔΕΝ εγινε η τοποθετηση οπως λενε οι οδηγιες του κατασκευαστη, δεν στεκει να συζητατε με τον Bird την -υπαρκτη αλλα ελαχιστη- πιθανοτητα να υπηρχε αστοχια υλικου.



(τα λεω με καθε επιφυλαξη μιας και μεσω ιστοσελιδων...)